[00:00:00] Speaker A: Welcome to Business Forward. I'm Joe Reyes and today we're talking about how smart decisions and clear numbers can drive real business growth. You're watching now Media Television.
Welcome to Business Forward. I'm your host, Joseph Reyes. And today we're tackling one of the biggest challenges facing every business owner and that is people problems. As companies grow, managing people becomes harder and harder than managing the business itself.
From turnover to team morale, leaders everywhere are asking the same question. How do you create a strong, healthy company culture that actually works well? Today we have joining us Nicole Anderson, a nationally recognized HR expert and the powerhouse behind MEND HR Solutions. She's also the CEO of Love Inspiring Life, a nonprofit dedicated to combating sexual exploitation and trafficking.
Featured on ABC, NBC, CBS, the W& Forbes, Nicole brings a rare blend of business insight and human understanding that's transforming workplaces across the nation. So, Nicole, welcome to Business Forward.
[00:01:13] Speaker B: Hi Joseph. Thanks. Nice to be here.
[00:01:16] Speaker A: Glad to have you here. Very interesting background you've got there. And definitely want to talk a little bit more towards the end about your nonprofit. It's very, a very important topic. But let's start by talking about why so many leaders find that managing a bit people is harder than actually managing the business itself.
So why do people issues become the biggest challenges that companies face as they grow?
[00:01:43] Speaker B: Well, I think for the, the business is pretty straightforward. Right. You know the things that you've got to do. But with people come emotions.
With people come different challenges on a day to day basis. And those, and the leaders that need to adjust to those personalities sometimes don't know how. So it becomes more challenging to communicate better, to listen better and to be able to move the business forward with the people that they have.
[00:02:12] Speaker A: Yeah, and people bring a lot of baggage. So. And you never know what to expect.
Sure.
So how can leaders start identifying the root cause, let's say of turnover or low morale? What's going on there?
[00:02:26] Speaker B: Well, I think you need to identify when the turnover is happening.
Is the turnover in the first 30, 60 to 90 days or are you turning over after a year?
Usually within the first 30 days it's going to be for job expectations. So it means we didn't communicate properly, like how the employee's job was going to go, what they needed to do.
When you get into 60 and 90 days, you're looking at training as an issue.
And then from there it becomes leadership.
Most people don't leave a company because of money, they leave because of leadership. And at that point you need to reevaluate within the organization, if the leadership is moving towards core values and the mission and driving the emotional intelligence of the employees.
[00:03:14] Speaker A: Emotional intelligence, there's a term for you that we need more understanding of.
Let's talk about emotional intelligence.
Explain that and describe it for us if you can.
[00:03:29] Speaker B: So emotional intelligence is learning how to adjust your emotions to the emotions of those around you, being able to understand why people have the emotions that they do, and understanding that your emotions have to be put in check before you're able to have.
Before you're able to move forward with the emotions of other people.
So it's very. Emotional intelligence is very important, but it lacks in a lot of industries and a lot of organizations, just because people operate off feeling instead of what they know to be the right way to move forward.
[00:04:08] Speaker A: Yeah. And does emotional intelligence often require a business owner or leader to have uncomfortable conversations with employees?
[00:04:19] Speaker B: Oh, yeah, definitely. But those uncomfortable conversations, they have to come with.
They have to come with maturity. Right. You have to be able to know, read the room, understand what you can and cannot say. So that plays along the lines of the emotional intelligence, because you can't go into a room where somebody's already high emotion and then add more emotion to the situation. You have to be able to go in, calm the situation, and then deliver the information to have those uncomfortable conversations.
[00:04:48] Speaker A: And you also have to be careful how personal you can get with somebody. Right.
[00:04:53] Speaker B: Well, I mean, sometimes you might need to get personal to understand where they're coming from, but it's just not crossing the boundaries of intrusiveness or anything like that.
[00:05:04] Speaker A: Asking questions about their families and their spouses and marriages and stuff like that is a place where leaders should stay away from, do you think?
[00:05:16] Speaker B: I think it depends. Right. If you have an employee that's had a really hard time, they've been a great employee for years, and all of a sudden they have issues. You want to have that discussion to say, hey, what's going on? Why.
Why all of a sudden are you not coming to work? And the employee might open up that maybe they're having marital problems or something, family, financial, whatever. And I think that's important for a leader to know so that they can one, address the situation and see how they can help.
Again, putting that human factor into leading, but getting into detail about what's causing the marital issues. I don't think that that's the place of the leader, but I think it is the place to understand where the problems are coming from.
[00:06:01] Speaker A: Yeah. Excellent points. Yeah, thank you for that. So what simple systems can A business owner or leader in general create to help create accountability without micromanaging.
[00:06:19] Speaker B: I think it's one setting expectations and understanding those expectations.
So whether that putting in place job descriptions, putting in place performance evaluations, performance reviews so that employees do know how to move forward, they know how to what the expectations are for them. And then once you get past the point of performance reviews, open door policies are kind of hit or miss. So really not sure. Sometimes open door policies work very well, but other times they don't.
So I think it's valid and important that companies have the open communication so that if there are issues, that's another tool in place where the employee can come in and say, hey, these are the issues that we're having.
[00:07:09] Speaker A: Yeah. And so do you also find maybe that a leader should be more tuned into the different generations?
Gen Z Millennials?
[00:07:22] Speaker B: Yeah, definitely.
Yeah, definitely should understand the traits of each generation. I think that that's important. You have your Gen Xers and Millennials that tend to come to work and they work put their head down where you get your younger generations that are coming in ready to just move through the growth of the company really fast.
And so it's definitely important, you know, your younger generations are really good at technology where your older generations are not.
[00:07:55] Speaker A: Yeah. So. So what's an older guy like myself to do when he's got these young cats that he's trying to grow and hire and etc. You know? So what do we do about that?
[00:08:09] Speaker B: Well, I think it just depends on what the skill set is. Right. What the skill set of the company is looking for.
With someone who's older, you bring. Loyalty is typically something that an organization needs.
While you need people who have growth, you definitely need people who are loyal and can, can stay with company to help mentor, teach, educate, and bring a different idea of an organization to the younger generations.
[00:08:39] Speaker A: Yeah, that's this whole people part I find to be so complicated.
So, so let's say a small business owner. Let's talk about small businesses. That's the bulk of our, I think of our audience.
Let's say a small business owner, something happened, they lost. This trust has been lost between the employer and the employee.
How can small business owners rebuild trust that may have been lost?
Any recommendations there?
[00:09:07] Speaker B: So I think it, I think it's starting small and starting transparent. Right. I think that most people want to be communicated properly to and they want to know what's going on within an organization. And while there's some things that can't be discussed with the employees, I think if an owner or a CEO is struggling with trust in their organization, the first thing for them to do is just be open and honest going forward and apologizing, acknowledging that maybe something wasn't handled properly and that you're learning and you're growing.
And as you grow within the or, as you grow as an organization, these things are going to come up and to provide a little bit of grace as we move through the growing pains of growth.
[00:09:52] Speaker A: Yeah. And I guess if you're going to be hiring people, it probably pays to, which is difficult for small business owners because you're just trying to keep your head above water and, you know, you're racing through the day. And hiring people requires you to have somewhat of your act together on the HR side, which I find very few small businesses had that together.
[00:10:19] Speaker B: I would say, I would say slim to none that they have their HR stuff together.
[00:10:24] Speaker A: Yeah. So a new employee get frustrated working with somebody who doesn't have it together, especially if they're perfectionists, if you will.
[00:10:37] Speaker B: So I think small businesses can start small to try to increase their ability to, you know, look at your local laws, look at your local, you know, starting with a handbook, some policies and procedures. You don't have to go big, you don't have to build out large training programs or anything like that. But I think it's important to. And there's. There's websites like shrm, which is a society for human resources management, only costs $299 a year for a small business. They can get all their policies, their handbooks that are all legally tested on there.
So, you know, I think that just starting small and showing your employees that you're moving in that direction or your new hires if you're, you're.
And then moving in with health benefits and things like that, you know, that's going to come a little later because pretty expensive for a small business, especially if anything under 25 employees.
[00:11:34] Speaker A: Yeah, that's a great recommendation. On the Sherm part, I was thinking AI chatgpt, my new best friend. You know, I can just.
[00:11:41] Speaker B: It definitely is.
Listen, I am all about some AI. However, if a small business owner doesn't know the right way or the wrong way, they're just going to take ChatGPT instead of like really digesting the information. And ChatGPT is not perfection at this point.
So going to a site that's trusted and, you know, you're able to pull things, you can absolutely pull the stuff off of there, throw it in CHAT GPT to kind of tailor it to your organization. But I wouldn't start there if you're just now getting into the HR piece with your small business.
[00:12:16] Speaker A: Got it. Got it. Okay, great. So what's one mindset that leaders can use to a mindset shift, if you will, that leaders can make to become better people managers?
[00:12:30] Speaker B: Well, I think the biggest mindset shift is they have to remember that at some point they were an employee and they remember how it felt going into an organization as a new employee. They know what it's like to have a bad manager and a bad leader. And I think it's reflecting on those things and understanding that that's not the leader that you want to be and you want to do better than the bad leaders that you've had. So I think that mindset shift in just remembering where you were at one point instead of now I'm a leader, now I have power. Now I'm going to now I'm going to tell people what to do and they're going to do what I say or they're going to do what I tell them to do, and that's it. And it just doesn't work that way. If you want a really successful career in leadership, you have to be able to manage the people.
[00:13:22] Speaker A: Yeah. Good advice. Very good advice. Well, yeah. Okay, so this brings us to the end of this segment. We're going to take a break. We'll be right back. Coming up next, Nicole is going to share how business leaders can turn employee conflict into collaboration and growth.
We'll be right back.
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I'm here with Nicole Anderson and in this segment, we're talking about something every business deals with conflict.
But as Nicole says, conflict doesn't have to be a problem.
It can actually be a path to a stronger teamwork and innovation.
So, Nicole, why is conflict inevitable in every Workplace. And how can it be good?
[00:14:55] Speaker B: Well, you have people.
So if you have people, you're going to have conflict.
And so different opinions, different personalities, different communication styles, different just different way of doing things. And it's going to create conflict.
But the one good thing about conflict is that it doesn't always have to be catastrophic.
You can have conflict that produces really great ideas, really great growth, really great revenue, but it's just being able to maturely handle the conflict and understanding that everybody's on the same team, we're not on different teams. And I think that once you do that, your conflict mindset shifts.
[00:15:36] Speaker A: And so can you tell us about the different types of conflicts that occur in small, medium and large corporations? I've been through them all, you know, and I've always been amazed at people who let it all out at the workplace, you know, and they do in different forms and fashions.
And you know, you have male, female, right? You got that mindset, you've got generational. We talked about that a few minutes ago.
So what other kinds of things, if you will, or personalities issues come up that create great conflict? And a lot of these, a lot of businesses.
[00:16:18] Speaker B: So you get peer to peer conflict, right? So you get two employees who don't want to work together or can't work together. You get male to male, female to female, female to male conflict, just differencing of opinions. You get leader and leader conflict.
You see it in the C suite. Often very strong personalities, they want the company to go in certain directions.
So you decide that you as a CEO, you're like, no, I want to go in this direction. And then you get half the individuals that agree with it and half the individuals that don't agree with it. And it creates conflict. So I mean, and it can be anywhere from performance, revenue, growth, policy, procedure, you can all kinds of conflict. I mean even the weather can cause conflict.
[00:17:08] Speaker A: Yeah, so, so what does one do when one has like two or three, two great employees that you love them both, they're good for the company. But this conflict then is spilling over into day to day relationships, is causing a toxic environment, if you will.
I mean, how would you recommend that somebody handle that?
[00:17:36] Speaker B: So I think the first part is as a leader, you need to listen, right? You need to listen to both sides. You need to understand what is happening and why it's happening. And then you need to figure out the communication styles of both the employees.
How did they receive communication and how do they get communication or give communication.
Once you figure that out, you can have a conversation with them both to say, hey, listen, we want to resolve this conflict. We want to make sure that we can move forward in a legitimate and healthy way with the organization.
So I need you to understand that this person receives communication this way and this is how we should communicate with them and then vice versa and see if we can get them to communicate properly first. Because that's usually the first issue and what's created the conflict.
The second thing is to figure out what we can compromise on if we're not going to have a full resolution. What's the compromise and what's the move forward?
And once we move forward or figure out the compromise, it's follow up. The leader has to follow up to make sure that everything is moving smoothly and that both employees are really satisfied with the compromise or the move forward decision that was made. If a compromise can't be made and we're not moving along, I think it's important to know that there just may not be a resolution resolution. But they have to work together, they have to figure it out or there is going to be, you know, some sort of disciplinary action that will need to happen. Because if it's not dangerous, it's not something that is creating discrimination or harassment or a hostile work environment, then we need to figure it out. And if we can't, then we're going to have to do more serious.
A more serious situational review.
[00:19:30] Speaker A: Yeah, that's tough on a business owner or leader who doesn't like confrontation and is kind of not. It's kind of timid about those kinds of matters. So, so what? What's the best way for leaders to step in? You touched upon it a little bit already, but how do you step in without making things worse? You have two hostile employees and it's really getting to a point where it's really ugly.
And if you say something to one without saying it to the other, or if you even imply that one is at fault and the other is less at fault, you have to develop some serious people skills, don't you?
To get through stuff like that without making management.
[00:20:11] Speaker B: I mean, leaders have to take their opinion out of it. Right? I think that that's the first step for the leader to get involved is it doesn't matter how you feel or what you feel. It's what these two employees feel at the time. And we need to figure out how to calm that situation. And you inserting your opinion or you inserting how you feel can make it because another employee may feel favoritism or something like that. So it's not about you. That's where that emotional intelligence comes in, where you read the room and understand that this isn't a time for me to insert the me in the conversation.
It is a time that I have to stay unbiased and I have to listen and understand both parties. And I think the leaders get involved when the employees just cannot come to a resolution. And sometimes they need an outside source to help them come to that resolution.
[00:21:00] Speaker A: Right.
Is that expensive to hire an outside source, do you think, for a small business to bring somebody in?
[00:21:08] Speaker B: Well, I guess it depends on what they need. If it's just somebody for conflict resolution, then no, it's probably not going to be that expensive. But if they want somebody to handle the whole process, then it is possible that it could get costly.
But I will tell you, a lawsuit and other things are a lot more costly.
So.
[00:21:25] Speaker A: Excellent point.
So turning conflict into opportunity, into collaboration is.
Expand upon that a little bit more.
[00:21:37] Speaker B: Repeat the question again. I'm sorry, turning. I didn't realize it was a question.
[00:21:41] Speaker A: No, I'm sorry. How do you turn conflict into collaboration?
How have you seen that work out and what. Give us an example. Maybe if you can something that.
[00:21:53] Speaker B: So conflict to collaboration.
Probably most, the most I've seen it is in the boardroom, right with the C suite.
You got two. It's usually operations and finance. Usually your biggest conflict C suite.
So what happens is, is operations doesn't agree with the financial constraints of the organization, but operations needs to move forward to produce revenue and finance is like absolutely not. And it becomes a big, usually around budget times Quarterly becomes a big, big issue.
And so what the C suite will do is they'll get in a room and brainstorm and figure out how they can compromise and come to a solution that works for everyone.
It typically ends because nobody wants to lose their job.
It typically ends in collaboration where now we have a resolution that everybody can utilize and everybody can use.
[00:22:50] Speaker A: That's a great example. That's good advice.
So any tools or frameworks come to mind that help teams resolve issues quickly?
[00:23:01] Speaker B: I to mostly what it is is just the conflict resolution model, right? It's the active listening, is understanding what's happening, learning communication styles and then resolution, resolution. And so it's just, it's really simple, three step process. It's what I use.
There's the Hiram model. There's a few things that you could use for conflicts, but they could they become a little bit more intricate and for small businesses, those types of, those types of resources, they just don't have. They can't spend hours building out conflict resolution platforms.
[00:23:42] Speaker A: And last question, how can companies prevent small disagreements from becoming major divisions?
[00:23:50] Speaker B: Addressing them as soon as possible, as soon as there becomes a small disagreement, making sure that everybody is okay and addressing it right away and not waiting to have the conversation.
[00:24:02] Speaker A: So if two employees can't come to an agreement and it looks like it's going to start spilling over, step in. And so if you have a manager, let the manager take care of that and not the manager's manager. Right?
Just let it go first and then. Okay. Yeah. So, Nicole, for all viewers who want to strengthen their leadership or improve the team culture, where can they learn more about your programs and services and talk about your nonprofit Also, please?
[00:24:28] Speaker B: So they can go to my
[email protected] they can also email
[email protected] I'm also available on LinkedIn or Instagram where we post content and leadership strategies.
And Our nonprofit is loveinspiringlife.org and we are in the industry of combatting sexual exploitation and sex trafficking, hoping to eradicate the industry in our lifetime.
So that is that's what we do.
[00:25:01] Speaker A: You have a website for that?
[00:25:02] Speaker B: Yeah. LoveInspiringLife.org okay, great.
[00:25:05] Speaker A: Thank you, Nicole.
So up next, we're going to take a break. Nicole's going to share why leading with empathy doesn't mean losing authority and how kindness and strength can go hand in hand. We'll be right back.
We'll be right back with more insights, tools and real talk to help you grow your business.
This is Business Forward on NOW MEDIA television.
And we're back. I'm Joe Reyes and you're watching BUSINESS FORWARD on NOW MEDIA television.
Let's get back into it.
Welcome back to BUSINESS forward. I'm joined by Nicole Anderson. And in this segment, we're tackling one of the biggest balancing acts in business, and that is leading with empathy while still maintaining authority.
In today's workplace, being a compassionate leader isn't optional, but too much leniency can create confusion or burnout.
So how do you stay kind without losing your edge?
So, Nicole, why is balancing empathy and authority so hard for business owners?
[00:26:11] Speaker B: Well, because most people need most business owners want to get stuff done, right? They need stuff done. They need money in the door. They have bills to pay. And so they come in, they come into the organization on a daily basis and they they see that somebody didn't move production or somebody didn't do this or somebody didn't do that. And the first thing they want to do is, oh my gosh, this didn't get done. And they just go in and just ream everybody about what needs to be done instead of asking the question of why it didn't get done and, you know, understanding that it wasn't, that somebody dropped the ball, maybe the production, the production line went down.
And I think it's just going back to what I said in the previous segment about just remembering who you were as an employee and who you don't want to be as a leader and having the discussion and speaking with your employees first before going in and just making any assumptions of why something's not done or something's not up to your expectations.
[00:27:12] Speaker A: So the empathy part for the gung ho business owner gets up in the morning, they're just raring to go, and the only thing on that person's mind is, we got things to get done today.
[00:27:25] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:27:26] Speaker A: And there's.
You may have an employee that's having issues.
And I will confess that for men, this empathy thing tad bit on the difficult side.
[00:27:39] Speaker B: It is very much. I will say that, yeah, I would say that I've dealt with a lot less empathy from men than women.
Men are wired differently from a mental health standpoint and a character standpoint for the most part.
So I think that it's important that as men, you have to think twice. Right. Like, you have to take an extra step before you go in and start ravaging your business to understand what is happening. Now, I won't say, like, I've had some really great leaders that have been men who, who were perfection at the empathy part.
It just takes some learning and education on your part to understand your employees. Understand. This is where also, as we talked in the previous segment where you go back to it's okay to know a little bit about your employees and what they're doing in their life, their personal lives and what's going on.
Knowing that somebody, oh, just had a baby, so he might come to work tired for a couple, you know, a couple weeks as they're. I mean, that's important information to know and it also helps. It also helps you learn empathy for your employees.
[00:28:51] Speaker A: Yeah, as a guy, I know I sometimes I can be kind of harsh, you know, and I, I try to be empathetic, but I got to say, when push comes to shove, I'm not thinking about people's feelings and, you know, my aggression just comes right out.
And I find out later, well, oops, I shouldn't have, you know, acted that way.
Any books you could recommend that us guys can read about and learn about empathy more and how to negotiate relationships.
[00:29:22] Speaker B: Well, there is a book, There is a book on emotional intelligence which also talks about empathy. It's. It's called Emotional iq. And I think that it's. I think it's an important book for anybody that's a leader to read.
There's also, if you.
Peter Thiel's book, I think it's zero. It's zero to start to zero or something where he was building his businesses. And he also talks about leading people in a position where you don't have any money, so you have this stress, the stress of building a business and also trying to pay your employees and things not getting done. So it's a. I missing the title a little bit, but it's a very popular book by Peter Thiel.
[00:30:11] Speaker A: Have you ever read Never Split the Difference by Chris Voss?
[00:30:15] Speaker B: No, I have not.
[00:30:17] Speaker A: Ex FBI negotiator. And he's big on empathy, so. Yeah. So I need to reread the book and look up these books myself.
So with empathy, how can leaders show caring while still setting boundaries?
[00:30:36] Speaker B: Well, I think leaders, again, we go back to emotional intelligence. Right. Leaders have to know their boundaries.
[00:30:43] Speaker A: Right.
[00:30:43] Speaker B: And they have to be able to set them and be able to hold fast to them. If you, if you set boundaries and then you allow people to cross those boundaries, then you're giving them permission to act the way that they want to act.
And then they feel they're going to take and take and take until you're able to really.
[00:31:06] Speaker A: Hold.
[00:31:07] Speaker B: Hold them accountable. And then it's. Then it's going to become a friendship. Right. It's going to become something that is not as.
Not as strong from a leadership employee standpoint. It's going to be a relationship that you've allowed to extend beyond the workplace. Right. And I think once you do that and you allow those cross boundaries, it's really hard to reel those boundaries in.
But you have to do that as a leader. But you can be personal. You just have to know where the line is for you and that employee.
[00:31:43] Speaker A: Yeah, that's kind of hard to do. So you want to be soft, empathetic, personable, but also professional. And making sure that people understand that there's that. That don't misunderstand this relationship. Not in so many words, but just making sure everybody understands this is a professional relationship. And I can see how that could be difficult. I know that would be difficult for me.
And when I've managed many people, I would take them out for drinks and dinner, hula hands, whatever. And you know that sometimes that worked out well from a team building perspective, but sometimes things got a little too friendly and the professionalism kind of got eroded a little bit.
[00:32:26] Speaker B: Correct, Correct.
[00:32:27] Speaker A: So how do you know your empathy is being misused? What are the signs?
[00:32:33] Speaker B: The signs of misused empathy is somebody asking more and more or for more and more things.
So you notice an employee, hey, I need to have Wednesday mornings off because I need to drop my child off at school where I'm having some problems. And I just need to make sure that I'm dropping my child off from school. And then all of a sudden, you know, you're like, oh, absolutely, do what you need to do. And then all of a sudden now you're doing Thursday and Friday drop off for school and now it's putting other employees out because they have to come into cover.
So when the asks get more and they get more repetitive, then you know, like somebody's abusing the empathy that you've given them and are crossing a boundaries or the ask is more severe.
Right. So like first you're asking for time off to take your child to work or to school in the morning, and now you're asking for full days off or like on a regular basis. And you keep using your child as a reason for those excuses, it becomes more and more severe.
So those are some.
If you're really emotionally intelligent, you can tell when somebody is trying to emotionally manipulate you, especially in the workplace, which is they want certain things because you're doing this, but now they want more because you're doing this.
In the, in, I would say in past terms it's been quid pro quo quo. Right? Like it's like, okay, well, I did this, you need to do this for me. But now it's more of that emotional maturity situation.
[00:34:23] Speaker A: Okay, cool. So what does true leadership with empathy, empathy look like in daily business life? Anybody come to mind? Any leaders that we know about that are a good example for us to think about?
Huh?
[00:34:42] Speaker B: I mean, have, I wouldn't say. I wouldn't say. I mean you could, I mean you could look at any major business leader and you can see Steve Jobs. If you, if you look at like his history at Apple, he was very much like on, on point. Like, he wanted the job done, he wanted the job done well. And he a very big stickler for making sure production was happening.
However, if you were doing your part, he would do his part.
And I think that that's, that's important to, to look at like if as an employee, if you do your part most of the time, the leadership is going to do their part as well.
And so I think a good leader understands the difference, right. Between just treating everybody like garbage, but also, but knowing that employees who are productive, who are moving forward and still doing everything with the trials, like you're going to match them with your leadership and your abilities.
[00:35:48] Speaker A: Yeah. Very cool. Great. Yeah. Well, all right, we'll be right back. Up next, we're going to be talking about why building new leaders inside your company is the key to lasting growth and freedom. We'll be right back.
We'll be right back with more insights, tools and real talk to help you grow your business.
This is Business Forward on Non Media Television.
And we're back. I'm Joe Reyes and you're watching Business Forward on Non Media Television. Let's get back into it.
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So let's get back into it. We're closing out today's show with Nicole Anderson who's showing us why the future of every business depends on one thing, leadership. Not just at the top, but within every level of your company.
Nicole, why is leadership development so important even in small companies?
[00:37:22] Speaker B: Well, because you have to drive your mission, vision and values and you can only do that with well educated and well trained leaders.
In my book HR is Sexy, I talk about process leaders and people leaders and process leaders are people who can manage processes and do very well at managing processes.
They tend not to be able to manage people very well.
But then you have, you have people, leaders who are very good at leading people, very good at managing conflict and managing all the all things people but sometimes lack in the productivity and moving the company forward, your ideal person has a mix of both of those where they can manage processes and manage people at the same time. And in managing people knowing like we've been talking about empathy and knowing those, those characteristics, communication and active listening but also be able to drive bottom line growth.
[00:38:22] Speaker A: You mentioned you have a book.
[00:38:24] Speaker B: I do.
[00:38:25] Speaker A: What's the book again?
[00:38:27] Speaker B: It's called HR is Sexy.
[00:38:29] Speaker A: HR is Sexy. Gotcha. All right.
Available on Amazon.
[00:38:34] Speaker B: Amazon, yeah. The original online bookseller.
[00:38:37] Speaker A: Yeah. Right. That's amazing about that transformation, isn't it?
[00:38:40] Speaker B: Yes, 100%.
[00:38:44] Speaker A: And so somebody entering, let's say, corporate America, Fortune 500 company, and they want to grow, they need to develop serious people skills, right?
[00:38:54] Speaker B: Oh, yes, definitely.
People skills are going to be the epitome of their. Their ability to grow, their ability to grow within that organization.
Fortune 500 companies are typically very well established in corporate training programs.
I mean, if you look at your top, if you look at the big four accounting firms, if you don't make it, if you don't make it past two tax seasons in those big firms, you will have a very hard time making it in small business and any other accounting firm. So they have very established policies, procedures, and training, and part of that is going to be how you manage and run your departments and your people.
[00:39:35] Speaker A: Yeah, you mentioned accounting firms. We accountants, you know, I'm a cpa.
We're not known for exceptional people skills and. And we tend to be introverted and during tax season, kind of grumpy.
So sexy. HR is a place to go, is to go to for a young person entering the accounting world or the finance world to learn, you know, things that you don't want to take 20 years to learn.
[00:40:06] Speaker B: Agree. Yes. My book does talk about employees or about leadership. And I use a lot of sports analogies.
And so I think that that's a strong place that you could start with your leadership. It also goes into, like, the ideal HR and how to communicate with HR and then as an employee, how to grow and increase in a business.
[00:40:30] Speaker A: Yeah. Long, long, long time ago, I read Dale Carnegie's how to Win Friends and Influence People.
That's where I started to learn about, you know, it's not just being good at what you do.
It's, you know, how you impact other people. And it takes a while. So the more you read about that area of life, the better your life will be, I think, and marriage and friendships and business, et cetera.
[00:40:53] Speaker B: Right, yes, yes, agree.
[00:40:56] Speaker A: So how can owners identify and grow future leaders and within their team?
What should we be looking for and how should we.
[00:41:04] Speaker B: Well, I think the first thing you have to look. I think the first thing that you look for is somebody who's interested in being a leader.
So sometimes what happens is somebody's really good at their job, and management's like, we need that person. We need to put them in a leadership role.
And that person really never wanted a leadership role. They were just kind of thrown into it.
However, if you find individuals who are willing and able to be a leader, then you start growing them, you start building them, you start mentoring them, put them with some of your top leaders to go through, build a training program for them, send them to conferences and invest in them. Invest in what you want your culture to be like. And the only way to do that is to build leaders.
[00:41:51] Speaker A: Have you worked with a lot of accountants in your 20 years?
[00:41:56] Speaker B: Have I worked at accounting firms with.
[00:41:59] Speaker A: A lot of accounting firms?
And how, how, how has my industry nurtured growth? Because sometimes it's more about billable hours and client acquisition than it is about, you know, bringing people together and, and being empathetic. And I'm just curious if you've worked with a lot of accountants at. And if you saw any improvement in their ways, if you will.
[00:42:22] Speaker B: Well, I haven't worked with a lot of accounting firms, but I've worked with a lot of accountants in the businesses that I've worked with in accounting departments.
I would say that accounting departments are typically some of the hardest to develop individuals because it's such a structured numbers department that everybody focuses on numbers. Everybody focuses on just staying in that area versus as an accountant. I just need you to pick up these skills. And now you're, you're a staff accountant. Now you're a staff account. I need you to pick up these skills. Now you're a controller. And it just goes. And not necessarily focused on the people aspect of leading.
I will say that I've, I have worked with a few finance and accounting individuals that are fantastic people leaders.
[00:43:13] Speaker A: So that's the edge for somebody going into that part of the corporation is be good at the books and the numbers and the skills, but definitely develop those people skills. So, so what's the best way to delegate without losing quality or control? If you want to grow somebody and, you know, you have to delegate them, you have to kind of let them loose a little bit.
[00:43:36] Speaker B: Well, I think the, the easiest way is to start small, give them small tasks, see how they do with those tasks, and then slowly increase the tasks that you're providing them over a period of time.
That's Leadership 101. Like, you're not going to. I mean, I know a lot of US leaders were just thrown to the fire and, you know, sink or swim.
However, if you're able to develop, it's throw them little things at a time, let them handle minor employee issues, see how they handle it, and then slowly start giving them more and more space to do larger projects and to then to eventually get to where they're fully leading a team.
[00:44:14] Speaker A: But then you're still going to feel there may be others in the team who may still feel a little jealous that somebody is being groomed and that may create some conflict too, right?
[00:44:25] Speaker B: Well, I guess it depends on how it's communicated. Right. And how it's handled. If somebody knows that somebody's the favorite.
Right. Then yes, it's going to cause conflict. But if everybody had the opportunity and the best person got the. Got the role or the opportunity, then that needs to be communicated properly and it needs to be completely transparent.
[00:44:47] Speaker A: Right. And be the transparency being the key. And one on one conversations, I guess, with somebody who feels they've been, you know, let, you know, jumped over, if you will.
So how do mentorship and feedback shape better leaders?
[00:45:09] Speaker B: Well, my favorite is reverse mentorship, which is where a younger individual is mentoring an older, more mature employee.
That's probably my favorite type of mentorship. I think it's a great way to mix the generations and get people comfortable.
And then as you're moving through the mentorship relationship, then you're building other relationships along the way, which then can enhance your ability to be able to become a better leader.
Because you're well rounded, you know how to work with a lot of different people. It also makes your more mature worker more.
What's the word? More patient with the younger generations.
[00:45:53] Speaker A: Yeah, good point. So mentorship and then reverse mentorship. I never heard about reverse mentorship. I think that's an excellent point.
You know, it's a little humbling for the older guy or gal.
[00:46:03] Speaker B: Yes, it is.
[00:46:05] Speaker A: You know, such is life. Right.
And how, what does a company look like when the leadership is. Is shared and not centered on just one person? I think I know what you're going to say, but what does that look like?
[00:46:21] Speaker B: So leadership shared means that everybody's doing their job, production is moving and there's very little conflict. Your people and your empathy skills are on point and nobody's burned out. Everybody's doing their share of the work. There's no burnout. Everybody's enjoying their job when there's that mutual understanding of mutual leadership.
[00:46:45] Speaker A: So that's how you can tell places being well run from a leadership perspective.
[00:46:50] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:46:51] Speaker A: And sometimes you have to let people go who are not contributing to the mission, so to speak. If they're creating conflict. Yes. Can't be resolved.
[00:47:00] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:47:01] Speaker A: Right.
[00:47:01] Speaker B: No. Yeah, you definitely have to.
[00:47:04] Speaker A: Yeah. Well, Nicole, this has been a valuable discussion where can people connect with you to learn more about MENHR Solutions and about Love Inspiring Life so they can.
[00:47:17] Speaker B: Connect with us on Instagram or LinkedIn and also our website, mendhr.com for our nonprofit.
Our Instagram is Guarding Innocence and Our website is loveinspiringlife.org thank you for what you do.
[00:47:36] Speaker A: That's a great mission. I appreciate that, Nicole. Thank you for showing us that leadership isn't just about managing. It's about inspiring, empowering, and multiplying impact to others.
To our viewers. Remember, when you invest in your people, you're not just solving problems, you're building a business that lasts. I'm Joseph Reyes and this has been Business Forward, helping you move your business and your leadership in the right direction. See you next time.
