Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: Welcome to Business Forward. I'm Joe Reyes and today we're talking about how smart decisions and clear numbers can drive real business growth. You're watching Now Media Television.
Welcome to Business Forward where we help business leaders and entrepreneurs uncover strategies that move their organizations ahead. I'm your host, Joseph Reyes. Today we're diving into an important conversation that many companies are struggling with.
Employee stress, burnout and the role benefits play in building a healthier workplace. I'm pleased to have joining me, Bob Niniber, a financial expert, co founder of Benefit RFP and recipient of the 2022 Humanitarian Award. Bob has extensive experience advising boards on executive benefits and senior financial programs. And he's also an accomplished author with two books in production for film.
Beyond his professional work, he values family, outdoor activities and giving back to his community.
Bob, thank you so much for being with us today. It's good to have you.
[00:01:02] Speaker B: Thanks for having me, Joe. I appreciate it.
[00:01:04] Speaker A: Yeah. You're an outdoors kind of guy, huh? I like that.
[00:01:06] Speaker B: Outdoors, big time. Outdoors, anything. Anything outdoors is better than everything indoors.
[00:01:12] Speaker A: I'm with you on that. Yeah. So. Well, great. So let's get started. Bob, the problem facing a lot of people in the audience, business owners and leaders, is that stress and burnout are very high.
And it often feels like traditional benefits don't truly help employees well being.
So we want to just unpack that a little bit.
So Bob, how do benefits connect with employees, mental health and wellness today nowadays?
[00:01:42] Speaker B: That's a great question, Joe. Yeah, there's a lot of unknown with benefits and a lot of companies struggle with are we aligning the right benefits with our people, especially for the top end folks, for the highly compensated folks that are running the companies and leading the companies. And you know, the number one thing that, that gets people in the door to begin with is, is what you're paying them. The number one reason why people leave is because of lack of benefits. And in many cases when we do exit strategies, we see that not only did the company have benefits, they had good benefits, but there was a complete disconnect between the participants and they didn't understand the benefits, they didn't understand how to maximize them, they didn't understand how to share these benefits with their partners at home. And you know, that causes a lot of stress. And so when we're talking about benefits, we really like to focus on the different groups that we're working with. So if we're working with highly compensated folks, these are tremendous values and replacement costs is through the roof with these folks. And you Know, if you have a lower ranking HCE, highly compensated executive making 150, $200,000 a year, replacement cost is generally three times what you're paying them. And so you don't want to losing people because to replace them, to get new people in, to train them, it might take a period of time. The people that left might have taken clients with them or maybe even taking some other employees with them. So it creates a real problem. If you lose people at the top of the chart, say a CEO, you're not only going to be looking at a replacement cost of somewhere between five and nine times their, their compensation. So if I'm paying my CEO a million dollars and I lose them, it might cost me five or six million dollars to replace them. But more importantly, I'm going to lose the culture of the company because the company is going to be responding to the culture that that person has put together.
And you know, if we want to lose them, that's one thing. But if we don't want to lose them and we don't have the benefits that are put in place that are easy for them to navigate, understand that produce value to these folks and all benefits should be an exciting conversation. This is money on the table, this is helping them. And we have that discon, you know, it really causes a lot of speed bumps that we just really usually aren't prepared to deal with.
A lot of times it happens during transitionary periods of ownership, those types of things. So we want to really make sure that the benefits are easily understood and easily managed by the team that's actually managing within the organization themselves.
We put together a total rewards process program to really eliminate a lot of the confusion, a lot of fears associated with them. So first off, when a benefit plan is put together, an executive benefit plan, and I'm talking on compensation programs, it should actually produce a profit for the company. And I'll say that again, because most companies don't realize this, they look at benefits as another cost. They're going to have to dig deeper in their pockets. And that's really not the case. There's so many tax laws, Department of Labor regulation rules, ERISA rules that actually help companies and puts them in a financial well being position where the plan should make a profit and should reduce negative cash flows related. And so after we take the managing folks through those conversations, we want them to be experts in the plan so they can then answer questions as they're being rolled out to the participants so that the participants fully engage and fully understand those benefit plans as well, so we show them what the company's situation is currently.
We show them what, what it would mean to have a plan, what the cash flow would be related to the plan, and how they make profits on these plans, on every single plan that we do. And then we enroll and implement the plan and then manage it on a quarterly basis with the companies by using quarterly concierge calls, where we take them through the asset, the liability, the income statements. And we do the same thing for every participant. We want every participant to know not only what it means to have the plan today, what it's going to mean effectively on their paycheck, how it's going to change things, but also how to manage the transition when they get closer to retirement, to where they're getting closer to the period of taking out these benefits. We don't ever want a participant walking into the great unknown. We want them to be able to know exactly how it's going to affect things like Medicare, how it's going to affect things like Social Security.
A lot of companies in America don't realize that even if they have a simple 401k, there's a Department of labor reg that's been out there since the 1970s, before 401ks existed, that allows participants in the higher end of saving. So if I have a million dollars or $2 million or more, I can actually set up a program during a transitionary phase that'll enable me to get those dollars out of that plan tax free. Doesn't cost the company a dime, but it puts tremendous value in the pockets of every participant that's utilizing these dollars. We teach people how to navigate Social Security so they can get the maximum amount. If you get the maximum amount of what you've put into it, you're going to get three times the distribution for the rest of your life versus if you take it out incorrectly. And there's about 9,000 different way money out of Social Security. So these, these are very important concepts for people to know so that when they do walk out, they know exactly what they have and what they're going to have. And they can present that to their tax advisors, their CPAs, we invite those people on those calls with them. So if they have a complex situation, we can, we can navigate that with them and get them through it so that they're in parity with whoever their advisors are as well to make sure they get the most out of the plan. And this, this excites people. This gives people the security, the feeling that, you know, not only is my Spouse seeing me go to work every day and disappear for most of the day.
And they know I'm, I'm taking care of them because of my income today. But they want to also have that comfort of knowing that everything's going to be okay throughout our 25, 30 years of retirement. We're not going to be struggling, we're not going to have to go, you know, pushing shopping carts at Walmart, those types of things.
And, and you know, that's usually the number one fear that, that marriages suffer is financial fears. And so we alleviate that completely. And that's a huge, huge component of really putting everything together is to make sure that people truly understand the benefits and effects on all sides that they can get out of these plans.
[00:07:58] Speaker A: Wow, you bring a lot to a party, don't you?
[00:08:02] Speaker B: It's a, it's a lot, it's a lot to take in. You know, one of the things that we do, a lot of companies feel that, well, I'm probably too for a traditional executive plan.
A lot of companies think you have to be a multi billion or trillion dollar company, you have to be a publicly traded company. And it's not the case. We have a lot of company plans that they might have one or two folks, maybe their owners or CEOs that are in a very small population but a very profitable organization and they're looking for the same strategies, the same help to be competitive against the larger companies. And maybe it's a private company that doesn't want to give out equity, which I always recommend to and participants because I really don't want a participant getting a bunch of stock in a company that's not publicly traded, doesn't have a secondary market because it puts them at tremendous risk. And so we go through those conversations and we spend time making sure that everybody's up to speed. We do a process through our organization called Simplify and that's really to make sure that everybody understands all aspects of the plan. And again, most of the aspects that we talk to people about are not company paid, but they're utilizing tax laws and benefit rules in a very easy fashion so they get the most out of it without the company always having to dig deeper in their pockets for these benefits.
[00:09:21] Speaker A: Oh very, I mean, I got to talk to you later. But so what about like mental wellness is a, is a big deal today. You know, it's talked about more and more, which is good.
You know, the companies provide and do you recommend companies provide some kind of mental health wellness program? If so, what's out There nowadays, you
[00:09:42] Speaker B: know, it depends on the company. So you know, I've been doing this for 35 years. I've seen, I've seen every type of company structure for profit, not for profit, big, small, public, private.
And at the end of the day it really comes down to a diagnostic with that company.
So I could have a company in a market segment that is going to have a completely different benefit lineup because of how they're structured internally, what the age groups are in the census and what their demographics are telling us. So every plan is going to be different. So for some companies, health and wellness, long term care plans, disability programs, all these things might be more important than highly compensated plans. Maybe a simple 401k is what you're really going to be focusing on at the end of the day.
But, but regardless of whatever plan you get into, the advisor should be very knowledgeable. Where we're in our ICP office, so we're registered retirement partners that go in and really do an audit of what they have. What they should be focused on getting some benchmark for them so they know what's going to give them the advantages that they need, especially when it comes to recruiting, retention.
[00:10:48] Speaker A: And yeah, I need to get you in touch with some of my clients. I'm a CPA tax advisor. And you, you're talking like really interesting stuff. So small companies, small mom and pop shops, maybe you can work with them.
It really comes down from the top, top down. You got to have the leadership, the mindset from the owners and the leadership and whatnot. Can you share examples where all of this, maybe you came in and you help somebody, a company, small or large, whatever, turn things around, reduce turnover and you know, create a better atmosphere their employees.
[00:11:26] Speaker B: So I, I represent probably 100 plus boards from all different kinds of financial discussions. I, I sit on several boards and I'm very involved in that community. And one of the things a, a relationship that we were just going through and, and doing a review on yesterday, they, they, they had a Legacy 1 program. Now they're opening up to a Legacy 2 group. And what's nice is, is when they first brought me in 15, 20 years ago, they had, they had been sold a plan that did nothing for anybody except for the person that sold it. It was a horrible plan.
Because of the plan's ineffectiveness and poor design. It actually turned the people against the company. They thought the company was not going to be there to pay them out. They thought the plan was, you know, doing something bad. And really they almost had a purposeful or intentful feeling that the company did this on purpose and the company had not done that on purp. They wanted the best for the participants. At the time, the company was probably worth, you know, $50 million.
Now the company's, you know, worth four or $500 million. And wow. And one of the biggest pieces that that changed that was aligning the benefit programs that they offered for their people that are leading the company to make sure that they one kept the culture that they've built. And it's a tremendous story. It's a tremendous. It's a privately held company, tremendous story they've had. They have people on their team that work from till they're 65, 70 years old now because of the benefit structures.
Everybody's excited. They've had people leave and retire and take advantage of the benefits on the distribution. And so we help them get there.
And I can tell you, in that case, it didn't cost the company out of pocket dollars. It actually reduced the amount of money that would be necessary to pay these people locked them in. They didn't have all these ugly turnover cost. And if you want to do a comparison of, of what culture means, you take a. I'm a sports guy. You take a team like the Yankees, who every year they're in the thick of things because they pay their players well, they have good programs for them, they keep that culture locked in so it doesn't change versus, you know, the mediocre or bad teams that have constant turnover, that fans can't even figure out who's on the team from year to year.
And that. So that culture is vital for the success of a big company, small company, it doesn't matter. And if you want to grow, have your people that are good people in line with you for 10, 20, 30 years and you'll get there. And with that, you cover a lot of different things in those conversations.
[00:13:58] Speaker A: Yeah, this is incredibly valuable. So how can people find you to continue the conversation and to follow?
[00:14:05] Speaker B: Yeah, if you're, you're. You can go online.
We have a website. We're part of the Simplicity group.
And so we have 85 shops around the country. We, we manage all the executive programs and benefit programs for the company through our group.
You can go to benefitrfp.com if you're a C suite person, you know, CHRO HR person, treasurer person.
I always give out my cell phone so they reach me directly so they can go through the website, call the offices, talk that way. But if you have detailed conversation, if you're owner you're going to have more detailed conversations. You can directly at 916-838-0866. It's probably the best way to catch me because I travel, I'm international with my travels.
But that phone is always with me. It lives with me.
[00:14:55] Speaker A: Excellent. Well, Bob, thank you. This is really valuable. I learned a lot and I'm an accountant. I've been in the business for quite a long time. So thank you for your expertise and your insights and for giving us your contact information for our viewers. I encourage you to reflect on your organization's benefits, how they align with your team and and the benefits, like Bob said, that are there and may not be as expensive as you may think, which is what business owners always think about.
So I'm Joe Reyes and this has been Business Forward.
Thank you for watching and we'll see you next time as we continue moving your business forward. See you next time.
We'll be right back with more insights, tools and real talk to help you grow your business.
This is Business Forward on Non Media Television.
And we're back. I'm Joe Reyes and you're watching Business Forward on NOW Media Television. Let's get back into it.
Welcome to Business Forward. I'm your host Joseph Reyes and this show is all about helping leaders and professionals make the shifts needed to move their businesses and careers forward with clarity and confidence.
Today we are lucky to have Leslie Everett with us. Leslie is an internationally recognized keynote speaker, consultant and coach on executive branding.
She has worked with leaders in more than 28 countries, authored three books and is a Hall of Famer award winning speaker.
Leslie's expertise focuses on building authentic executive brands and in this first conversation we'll explore why being authentic feels risky for so many professionals and how authenticity, when done right, can transform leadership effectiveness and build stronger trust with teams. So Leslie, thank you for being on the pleasure.
[00:16:42] Speaker C: Joe, thanks for having me on a pleasure.
[00:16:44] Speaker A: So Leslie, so talking about authenticity, why do you think so many people feel like they have to wear a mask in a professional setting?
[00:16:53] Speaker C: Yeah, and it's true. They do, don't they? And you know, studies will show us that people go to work every day to a quite a high percentage and try and be somebody they're not. I think, I think it's because people often will associate professionalism with perfection. They have to be something they're not. And it's ironic because when you remove that so called mask, then that's when the real magic starts to happen and the performance happens. And then as a leader particularly you start to take people with you more effectively because the trust and the credibility and relationship is there. So it's ironic that they think they're creating the opposite of what they are doing when they wear a mask in business. But it's, it's all too common. And, you know, it's something that I work with people to try and break down a lot of the time.
[00:17:42] Speaker A: Yeah. And I, I guess this also goes for your personal life too.
[00:17:45] Speaker C: Doesn't really does. Yeah. Yeah. You're one brand, one person, whether you're in the workplace or at home.
[00:17:52] Speaker A: Yeah. You want to, you want to ensure that. You want to build trust with people. You want them to know that, you know, what you're saying is authentic and true and that you're not saying something else when they're not around.
And people pick up on that. And then it's not so good, is it?
[00:18:09] Speaker C: Exactly. Right. You know, and, and gossip, you know, is one of the truest ways to destroy your leadership brand.
So, you know, you touched on that. There is being. Saying one thing in one place and another thing and another. And yeah, you destroy the consistency and you restore. You destroy your reputation.
[00:18:27] Speaker A: And it's very easy for that to happen. I mean, people like to gossip, you know, human nature is what it is, you know, and, and so, you know, when somebody brings something to your ears, you know, what do you recommend the leader say to them? Or do
[00:18:42] Speaker C: I think it's, you know, the best thing to do as a leader is. Is listen. And certainly not being sucked into agreeing, empathizing. Absolutely. And how that might make that person feel, but giving them some coaching on how they might be able to manage that themselves rather than try and change the person involved. And unless it's something that needs to be escalated, then it's better to just empathize, listen, ask questions back. How do you think it might be best to diffuse this, to challenge this, to put this right. And going to a coaching mode rather than a telling and agreeing that just exacerbates the, the problem. In fact, I've come across that just this week with a leader in this very, very situation. Same situation.
And it's, it's hard to just extract yourself a little bit and, and not agree with what's being said. Even if you do, it's, it's. It's important as a leader to just remain neutral and help them and coach them through it.
[00:19:45] Speaker A: Yeah. Especially if you're trying to groom somebody for a leadership role. Right.
You know, and everybody has flaws and it's always nice to have an objective set of eyes in here say, hey, you might want to rethink what you're saying and you know what your approach is.
So you just shared a story about a leader who showed up authentically, maybe. And can you tell us a little bit more what that looked like? And did this person see any changes for the better in the organization?
[00:20:16] Speaker C: It's often, and it's not just isolated to one instance, it's often where there is a culture within a team of, of gossip or talking about people behind their backs or talking about the negative situation rather than getting to the root cause of what's going on. And often it's endemic because it's a culture. So if I'm coaching a leader and tend to coach at that executive level, at leadership level, I would be looking at ways for them to say, okay, let's get to the root problem here. Have you got a culture of transparency? Have you got a culture of openness and feedback, allowing people to, to accept feedback in a positive way without reprimand or making them feel bad? So it goes back to the groundworks or the foundation of the culture that you've built in the team in terms of what manifests itself. And if people are gossiping, it's very much that put it back down to the leader themselves. So it's questioning, how are you building the team? What are you, what are you building the team on in terms of a foundation? What are your rules of engagement moving forwards if you're going to break out of this?
[00:21:24] Speaker A: Yeah, so. So it starts from the top, of course. So do you do things like, do you get team building events put together and get groups of people to work towards a common goal, maybe in a game or in the outdoors or anything like that? Is that something you recommend?
[00:21:44] Speaker C: Yeah, I mean, I don't do team building per se, but some of the things that I do do that actually do build the team is to look at the team brand.
So a great team is only made up of great individuals. So it's having individuals within the team and encouraging them to think about how do we want to operate as a team. What do we agree is the best way for, to achieve the goals that we've got? How do we make everybody feel like they're part of this and part of the big picture and the vision and, and the end, end result? So I'll work with teams to help them to come up with a brand that, that does that. I always remember working with a, a guy called Sir Clive Woodward. I don't know if you've come across Sir Clive Woodward. He. He was the performance coach for the England rugby team way back in 2003 when they won the World cup. And he was very well known for his revolutionary ways of training people, individuals being the best they can be in the role that they can be in. But he also looked at how do you galvanize a team and how do you come up with rules of engagement for a team? And there was a very famous story when he asked the team to come up with various rules they wanted to stick by and then they'd all agree them and they even agreed their team kit on what they would wear when they were at training sessions. Because they were on public display, people could go and watch them train and they agreed exactly what they were going to wear.
One day at a training session, one of the players who was bit known as a bit of a maverick, Jeremy Gaskett, turned up in the wrong socks and Clive Woodward sent him home and it hit all the tabloid newspapers at the time and. But the team were behind the decision because they'd all agreed this is what we're going to do. We all agreed together. So absolutely the right decision. And while it sounded very trivial, it wasn't because that broke the rules of the team. So if you can have a team that comes together and makes their own rules and you sanction them as a leader, it's. It's very robust. And of course that never happened again with the socks.
[00:23:41] Speaker A: Yeah, that's a good story.
Wow. And.
And so, so do you see that a difference between authenticity and over.
Over sharing and maybe talking too much about yourself or your personal life or your personality. These here a line there that should be kept to.
[00:24:04] Speaker C: I do sometimes see that. And that again is where coaching can come in and feedback, you know, having your own story and telling people a bit about your background and your DNA and who you are as a person is, is very powerful. But we need to know when to stop. So the, the test is, is this relevant to this audience? Whether that's one on one, a small group or a large audience or whoever it is, is it relevant to them and is it going to hit the mark in a way that's meaningful? If it's something totally irrelevant to their world, then you don't use it or just keep it very succinct to the point, and that's an art in itself, is keeping these little stories and anecdotes about yourself to a succinctness that allows people to absorb and then you can move on.
But the More you talk about can overstep that. That line. Of course. Yeah.
And we also have to punctuate that with. With asking the questions, of course. Understanding the other side of other. Of individuals that we're working with and their authentic story.
[00:25:05] Speaker A: Yeah. So not telling too much about your personal lives and, and just being careful of what you say as a leader especially, that makes a lot of sense. You don't want to feed more information than you have to to your team members.
So what. What's one way that you. Simple way that you think that people can start being more authentic without feeling exposed.
[00:25:30] Speaker C: One of the things I use in some of the team sessions I might run is even though they might work together well as a team, I'll have them on always working with Tay round tables. And I might ask them to share with each other one thing that not many people know about them. And you can see the. The discomfort. You know, they're uncomfortable with it. Oh, my goodness. I don't know. And there's nothing interesting about me. There's nothing that I can share. What am I going to. It's almost like they're on the spot. I give them some, some aids to, to. To help them with this, to generate thoughts and, and create the memory or bring the memories back.
And you can hear all sorts of things. Oh, my goodness, I don't know what I've got. And at the end of it, there's all this chatter and all sorts of wonderful things come out. You know, maybe they were ballroom dancing champion of right. Idaho back in 1995 or something like that, you know, or gymnastics champion or whatever, or survived a plane crash. I've even had somebody have that. So. And they didn't know this about each other. It's something that they've not shared in business, in the professional life, but it says so much about the individual and the other dimension of their brand that they start starting to be seen in a different light now. And it's a very simple, fun exercise, but it's. It's hugely powerful. And they want to know more about this.
[00:26:47] Speaker A: No, this is good stuff. Yeah. Well, let's take a break. We're coming. We'll be right back. Where we dive into the personal struggles of professionals, how they tell their own story and how to change that. We'll be right back. Stay tuned. Thank you.
We'll be right back with more insights, tools and real talk to help you grow your business.
This is Business Forward on NOW Media Television.
And we're back. I'm Joe Reyes and you're watching Business Forward on NOW Media Television. Let's get back into to it.
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from business and breaking news to lifestyle culture and everything in between, now Media TV is streaming 24 7. It's ready whenever you are. And I'm here with Leslie Everett and in this segment with Diving into the power of Storytelling, many professionals struggle to tell their own story effectively. And as a result, they leave a little extra, very little impact after a meeting or an event and people that they meet.
So, Leslie, this is a great, great topic.
Why why is storytelling such a powerful tool in business and in relation and leadership and in relationships?
[00:28:29] Speaker C: Absolutely. And it is, it is a great question. It's something that is getting used and talked about more and more in corporate life. I see with, with my clients. And the, the reason being is that facts alone are just facts and don't get remembered. Stories engage and inform an audience beyond what facts alone can can do. So it's, it's something that gets remembered. It's something that people engage with as they're hearing the story. Whether it's an anecdote based on an experience you've got, whether it's a story that has happened in your professional life, in your personal life, that's there to illustrate a point. But when you do tell a story, you bring it to life for the audience. Whether that's one on one, when you're coaching one of your team, whether it's a team event, whether it's a, a big company presentation, you're engaging their brain in a different way. So if I said to you now, Jo, I want you to imagine you're walking across a field and in the distance you can see a little farmhouse with white picket fences around the edge and a nice beautiful rose bush with pink flowers around the front door.
If you're telling people those facts, what you've now got running through your mind is your own movie script that you're imagining and making up in your head that's so different to anybody else's, but it's your little movie script. Therefore, the point that's being made with that story or that little bit of visual that you're giving, which is what stories give, is allowing you to absorb, to download and to remember and really engage with that, that person. So it's something we should all get good at is, is the storytelling, is creating the visual with whatever facts we're trying to get across.
[00:30:09] Speaker A: That's good stuff. So just when you just did that for 10 seconds, I already saw, I had a vision in my head already. And, and you're right, it's my vision. It's. And it's going to be different than somebody else's. And there's just something about storytelling that appeals to the young and the old alike.
I love stories. And it takes a break from the, you know, humdrum world of life, you know, and, you know, like you say you're telling, you, you're telling a story about business, you know, and morph into a little story that gets people thinking differently and it draws them in, doesn't it?
[00:30:44] Speaker C: Yeah, it really does. You know, it's got to be relevant, though. I've seen a lot of speakers, professional speakers over the years. Some tell stories brilliantly, some not so well. It's got to be relevant to making a point. There's no point. So it depends on the context and the setting. But there needs to be a learning point behind the story, whatever that might be. And that could be a multitude of, of things. But when you're making a point, a good structure, if you're presenting or you're just again, informal, one on one, and you're making a point, is to clearly make the point, then relate the story or the visual piece and then make it relevant to the audience. So turning it around to. And if we don't do it this way or we don't embrace this, this is what it's going to look like in six months time. So it's making it very relevant. And that's, that's the, the tricky bit for, for a lot of speakers, sometimes they don't tell stories, or leaders rather, they don't tell stories because they think they're irrelevant and they need some nudging to say, well, no, it's not irrelevant. There's a real true business point here if we can just construct it in the right way, in a succinct way. So it's a skill that every leader needs to get better at.
[00:31:55] Speaker A: I guess I have to do the same.
So relevant and appropriate, right? I mean, there's got to be their boundaries.
[00:32:03] Speaker C: Absolutely appropriate. So check out who are the audience, the culture, if you're in a different country. If you're speaking across zoom to multiple different cultures, you got to be able to test that story out, the humor, the relevance, appropriateness, and never forget to do that preparation. I've seen multiple things go wrong over the years with that lack of preparation and embarrassment is caused. So I would always talk to people. If I'm addressing an audience, I would always talk to people in that audience ahead of time, two or three people, and just run things past them.
Or if you've got a new team that's in another country, similar thing, just making sure it's appropriate as you, you say so.
[00:32:46] Speaker A: So what is like one or two of the most common mistakes that people make off the top of your head?
[00:32:51] Speaker C: It's humor. Often people think storytelling goes along with humor. Sometimes it does, sometimes it, it doesn't. And you know, that's fine, but it's making sure the, the humor lands in, in the right way and it's funny. We all know comedians that always sound like they're just making it up on the spot. And of course they don't. They, they rehearse, rehearse, rehear, joke or that scenario, that story in the right way. I always remember presenting in Canada and I was presenting to a group of four or five hundred professional speakers, which was a bit daunting for any speaker to do in the middle of the night. We had a fire alarm that went off and I was on at 9 o' clock in the morning. It was about 2 o' clock in the morning, the fire alarm went off. We were in Nova Scotia. It was minus 11 outside and I started to think, oh my goodness, I'm going to have to get up in the middle of the night, no hair and makeup done, and I've got to address this audience in a few hours time. And I built that story into the presentation because I couldn't ignore it. Everybody had experienced it and it landed really well. The laughter went on. I had to wait for that to go down and it just worked. I tried using that same story, a different audience a few months later and it just bombed. It just didn't work because they didn't experience that, that experience that I had. So it was a completely different context. Even though I told it the same way, it didn't land. So humor is one of the biggest mistakes. People, they, they, they get it out of context or it's not appropriately delivered.
[00:34:27] Speaker A: Yeah, it's very risky. So yeah, you don't know what's going to happen. So.
[00:34:31] Speaker C: Yeah, that's right.
[00:34:32] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:34:33] Speaker C: It is, it's tough one.
[00:34:36] Speaker A: So can you tell us the share a story of someone who reshaped the way they told their story and completely changed how others looked at them and saw them?
[00:34:46] Speaker C: I think there are multiples. I think in, in general, I've coached a number of leaders in this whole skill of bringing out more about themselves and, and being vulnerable.
And I've seen dramatic effects when I can just work with them to say, okay, let's, let's do. If you're going to be on this panel, for example, for this company conferen, let's look at a time when you, when you messed up, not something you really want to talk about and do you think is not what's not the appropriate thing to do, but let's look at a time when you, you messed up. And I've done this with various people.
Let's look at how we can construct it so it's a positive. But let's look at how you messed up, but most importantly what you did about it. And let's construct the story around all of that. It is phenomenal the impact that that has on an audience when you just make yourself a little bit vulnerable. You're not perfect, you've made mistakes, but this is what you've done about it and this is what you've, you've learned. So I think there's not one isolated incidence as many of those where I've worked with leaders to help them feel comfortable with sharing that vulnerability story in the right way.
The transformation is incredible. They, what happens as a result is that people, they're more transparent, so they take people with them more effectively. So as a leader, they've got a much more cohesive team.
[00:36:10] Speaker A: It's a big step to do that. I mean, that you just go put up and say, let's see what happens.
[00:36:16] Speaker C: Yeah, right.
[00:36:17] Speaker A: But you know, it just shows everybody that leaders and followers are human beings. We're on the, we're on the same boat. Every human being sooner or later has a bad day or a good day, you know, and so it can't hide. Hide from it. So.
[00:36:31] Speaker C: Exactly. Yeah.
[00:36:32] Speaker A: Right. Yeah. So, so how can someone figure out which parts of their story are the most important to highlight? And again, it comes back to relevancy we talked about earlier, maybe appropriateness. But you know, you have a set amount of time to talk and you know, you have to be kind of selective about the things that you say. Right.
[00:36:52] Speaker C: So yeah, one, one thing that's sure to make a difference and an impact is how we make people feel, however big or small the audience, how do we make them feel? So is that story going to make them feel good, inspired, motivated, give them a pathway to improve whatever it is, how is it going to make them feel? And if we can base a story around that and knowing that how we make people feel is a positive, then we're on the right tracks with it. So that would be one thing to always make sure with whatever story you're telling is that you consider how you make people feel. And that's true with anything to do with developing your brand. Really, it's about how you make people feel. And of course it's based on that. It's, it's not based on. But the great Maya Angelou did affirm that with her, with her statement, of course, that I've come to, come to understand that people will forget what I did, they'll forget what I said, but they'll never forget how I made them feel. Yeah. And we can use that in lots of walks of life.
[00:37:55] Speaker A: It's good advice. Very good advice. Well, Leslie, thank you for this discussion. Very interesting.
For viewers who want to like, follow you and, and learn more about you and contact you, how, how can they do that?
[00:38:09] Speaker C: Yeah. Thank you. It's. My email is probably best at leslie lesley everett.com and Lesley is spelled L E S L E Y. And that's my website as as well. So you can reach me there for, for further information on anything that I've talked about today and beyond.
[00:38:25] Speaker A: Oh, great. Very nice, Very nice. Okay. Well, we have another segment coming up. Up next, we'll be talking about mismanaging your reputation in the digital age. And while your online presence may be hurting your brand more than you realize, don't go anywhere. We'll be right back.
We'll be right back with more insights, tools and real talk to help you grow your business.
This is Business Forward on Non Media Television.
And we're back. I'm Joe Reyes and you're watching Business Forward on NOW Media Television. Let's get back into it.
Well, welcome back to Business Forward. I'm your host Joseph Reyes and I'm here again with Leslie Everett. In this final segment, we're unpacking one of the biggest challenges for professionals today and that's mismanaging their reputation in the digital age.
So, Leslie, this is a very interesting and appropriate conversation to be having today.
We've had stuff in the news not too long ago that we'll talk about, but why is it so important today to manage both your online and Offline reputation.
[00:39:34] Speaker C: Yeah. Great question to start with, Joe. And I think, you know, it's easy to forget that in the past our in person reputation was what we had and that was the most important and it had been till recent years. And then of course, social media presence kind of almost takes over as the first impression that people have or the reputation is built from that because there's so much out there and if we mismatch it, if we're a different person in person to the one that we project on social media or, or different things are coming through about the brand than we perhaps live out in person, then it's hugely damaging. And that's because of lack of consistency.
And if people don't really, if we don't have consistency, people don't really know who we are, which then manifests itself in people getting mixed messages, not referring us or recommending us in a way that we want them to and basically have. They don't know who we are.
So social media, it really can do a lot of damage if we don't manage it well. And I see a lot of people just putting out so much stuff on social media because they think that's what they need to do to build their brand or their visibility. But you need a strategy and that that's a key thing to keep your brand as one, whether it's online or offline.
[00:40:53] Speaker A: Yeah. So if, if you, if you like to be on X or Facebook or Instagram and posting crazy stuff and arguing and bickering with people and then, you know, on the other side you're, you're trying to come across as a, as a smooth leader or, you know, an intelligent individual who's got it under control. That doesn't really work so well, does it?
[00:41:14] Speaker C: No, it doesn't. You've got to be really careful of that.
And you know, if you're going to be controversial in any way, make sure that's part of your brand, if that's what you want to be known for.
[00:41:23] Speaker A: Good advice, people.
I like it.
Okay, so, so what was. What are some common mistakes that people make with their social media presence that hurts their brand? I think this is a really important question and topic.
[00:41:40] Speaker C: Yeah, there's a couple of things. First off, just putting stuff out there all the time that has no relevance to your brand. So when I work with people, it's looking at identifying and articulating what are the key things about your brand, Your expertise, your brilliance, your core differentiator that we really want to get out there about you. So everything you post should in some way be adding a layer and reinforcing that part of your brand.
Reposting. I see people just repost with no comment of their own, and that's, that's their entire presence. It's like you don't have your own voice. That's the impression that comes across.
So it's, it's making sure that you have a plan. What are the key things I want to get across about my brand? And there might be three, four, five things about your leadership style, your leadership brand, your beliefs, your guiding principles that everything could hang off of. And I'm not talking about repetition. I'm talking about if you repost something, pick out something that says, yeah. In my experience as a consultant, this is what I often see, and it made me think that this is something that perhaps we can delve into more. So having a meaningful piece behind that repost that aligns with something you want to be known for as a leader. So it's a couple of things there. Just putting way too much out without a structure and a strategy.
[00:43:01] Speaker A: Well, a lot of social media is, you know, personal.
You know, whether it's politics or religion or relationships and, and whatnot, and, and people are posting all kinds of stuff that's personal.
Not recommended, is it?
[00:43:15] Speaker C: No, it's not. Don't share too much. We all know that what we read on social media isn't totally accurate all the time. Of course we get a false view of people's lives.
But yeah, you don't want to be sharing too much if you're a public figure. If you're a leader, just be careful.
Your personal pages and platforms that you work on, they're still visible even though you, you don't use them in business. People can still look you up on there. So you just have a responsibility to your, your brand, to your company, to your team to just make sure everything is in alignment with who you really are without going down those depths of those routes.
[00:43:54] Speaker A: That makes sense. If you're a leader and you think of yourself a leader, you'll see things a little differently and act differently.
Anybody come to mind, maybe that turned around the digital reputation and saw big results?
[00:44:08] Speaker C: Yeah, there's been a lot over the years. Some are out of date now. I mean, we had the recent one, of course, with the astron. Astronomer. Yeah. CEO and chief people.
Chief of people, whatever her title was.
And you know, those are astronomical, excuse the pun there.
Dramatic.
There's a dramatic collapse of the, the brand there, which is very difficult to recover from. But you know, what the company did I thought was brilliant in that. Okay. They dealt with it very quickly. And then of course, I don't know how many of the viewers watched the video that Gwyneth Paltrow did in response. And of course, she was a former wife of Chris Martin, where all of this started from the singer head lead singer of Coldplay.
And she, she knew nothing about their products. And that was the thing, that was the whole point. She didn't know anything about their products. But what she said she had, she addressed the, the, the, the situation without talking about it. She, she, she hit it without talking about it in detail. And then she went on to talk about the products that Astronomer needs to be is, is known for and completely sidelined the whole issue. And the fact that she doesn't know anything about those products and we know she does, wasn't. But the fact that they brought her on, now everybody knows about the products that that company is known for or should be known for that sells. It was a piece of sheer brilliance from the PR team. And whoever came up with that idea, I hope they've got a massive promotion based on big grade.
[00:45:38] Speaker A: And bonus, that is pretty slick, you know, sidetracked it. And yeah, so. And you know, I, I don't recall the name Astronomer before, you know, other than the history, but now we know.
[00:45:51] Speaker C: We know exactly. Amazing piece of pr.
[00:45:55] Speaker A: Yeah.
So if someone feels embarrassed about what's already out there, so maybe continuing on with this conversation, what's one step that they can take to fix their own reputations? In this case, we have the CEO and the, in the, and the vice president, I think, of human resources, I think it was. And I read a little bit about their background. There was an additional story to their lives. So it's not what it just looked like just in that camera shot, you know. So what can they do that? I mean, they're embarrassed, things fall apart. What's one step they can do to start fixing their reputation?
[00:46:26] Speaker C: Yeah, and you know you're talking about is crisis management. Reputation management.
I think when things go wrong is where companies or individuals don't face it up and admit it and face the cameras and answer the questions. That's one of the biggest things to not do.
Then it's, it's a matter of, okay, it's happened.
What was I known for before that? What are the key things about my brand that I achieved that I was known for that I should be known for in the future and start to rebuild based on that, but working really hard to add those layers back of what you really want to be known for in your professional life, your personal life. But you can't avoid it. Admit it. If it's something, don't avoid it. Don't blame. I mean, that's another thing we see. Blaming somebody else else for our own mishaps, that's the worst thing you could do to damage your, your reputation. So face it up, start building the brand again consciously in perhaps in a more powerful way than you would have done or had to do before it happened.
[00:47:31] Speaker A: Yeah. By blaming somebody else, you're coming off as inauthentic, shall we say.
[00:47:35] Speaker C: Yeah, right.
[00:47:36] Speaker A: And hypocritical. So that's pretty good advice.
Yeah. This is a great topic. Just one last question for you on that.
So for the average business owner, you know, let's say something happens and it's public, do they hire a professional PR person?
Do such people exist that help lower echelon type leaders deal with issues? Or is it just for the high profile wealthy?
[00:48:05] Speaker C: Depends what they have in house. But in fact, one of my good colleagues in the professional speaking world that I've known for many years is a crisis reputation coach and is often called in as an expert to deal with whatever the situation might be. Will write the scripts for them. For the TV interviews, we'll advise. It depends on how good the internal PR team are. But often externally it's better to get somebody external. His name is Alan Stevens, he's a great reputation coach and he has so many different tips and things. That's online.
But yeah, I'd advise getting external advice where you can because often internally it's a little bit. But don't see it as clearly as it perhaps is.
[00:48:49] Speaker A: Yeah, maybe, maybe get an insurance policy that covers a damage to your reputation damage, I'm sure.
[00:48:54] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah.
[00:48:56] Speaker A: And it's out there. You can, you can do that.
Yeah. So, Leslie, this has been incredibly valuable information.
I would love to keep on going, but we have to wrap up shortly. You have a new show launching pretty soon. Executive Success.
[00:49:09] Speaker C: Exactly, yeah. I'm very excited about that Executive Success and I've got so many executive contacts and clients all over the world that have built up over the years and other external experts that we hope to bring on the show and look at everything that helps an executive succeed in today's world. So it'll be very, very broad but pinpointed on Executive Success. So, yeah, I'm very excited about that.
[00:49:33] Speaker A: Where can we tune in?
[00:49:35] Speaker C: I think we're. So it's with NOW Media TV obviously, and it's I think we're going to to start broadcasting from the middle of October. We're just pinning down dates right now.
[00:49:43] Speaker A: Oh, that's very exciting. Congratulations. That's good stuff. Well, thank you so much, Leslie for sharing your insights today.
From the courage to be authentic to the art of storytelling to taking control of your reputation in the digital space, you've given us some powerful strategies that every professional can put into practice and this is real life stuff that we really need to focus on and not put it off to thinking that it belongs to somebody else. It belongs to us. All right. So to our viewers, remember this. Your brand isn't just what you say. It's what people experience.
Take small intentional steps each day and you'll start shaping the perception that matches who you truly are. I'm Joseph Reyes and this has been Business Forward. Thanks for joining us and until next time, keep moving your business and yourself forward.
Bye.
[00:50:30] Speaker B: It.
